Moaning motorists told to face reality!

hey there

i own a 4x4 and it is used properly - i do go off road...

i no longer use it as i travel 250 miles a week and the motorbike is cheaper and quicker....

use petrolprices.com to find the cheapest petrol stations in your area, i know exactley where to fill up, today on the way home my fuel was 89.9p so its going down...

I'm not totally convinced it is our actions which are causing climate change. The climate has drastically changed many times before, for example the ice age, and the same thing (global warming) is happening on Mars. In the news, ages ago, they spoke about how we could learn from the climate change on Mars and use it to predict how global warming on earth would progress, but this has never been attributed to too many Martians driving 4x4s and making unneccesary journeys.

The first time I bought petrol for my motorcycle I was shocked to find it was 78p a gallon - and that was for 2-star :)

Not another global warming myth.Just for arguments sake lets say I agree its not man made (although 99% of experts believe it is)surely with oil running out it makes sense to get rid of 4x4,etc?.If you need to go off road why dont use you use your feet or a mountain bike? About 90% of car journeys are less than 7 miles, which would be better done by bike-exept the roads are so dangerous.And dont you agree with Ken Livingstone that those awfull crash bars some of those giant jeeps have should be banned?

Hi Everyone, I own a 4x 4 and don't go off road!!

I spend in excess of £40 a week in diesal per week and can barely afford to run my car!

I would change it like a shot to a nice envirnmentally friendly MPV but guess what? I can't afford it!

I had a brand new MPV which was very fuel efficient, but when the recession hit my business, we lost that, our home, and our shiny car! I have 4 children, 2 with disabilities so I NEED a car! I also have health problems so can't just walk the miles to do the school run, or to the not so local shops!

I know of many other people who need 6/ 7 seats in cars as the law says our children have to be seated properly in our cars, but we can only afford what we can afford!
It is so very easy to target us people who damage the atmosphere so willingly, but when you are all discussing it, remember that not all of us drive these cars because we want to! It is absolutely a case of necessity for us, and if the governemnt gave me a grant toward exchanging it, I would do it tomorrow! Instead I get hammered for road tax as well as fuel tax and I get abused in the street! On several occasions I have been called names for my mode of transport,because discussions about road pollution always villify the drivers of 4X4 and some people insist on having their say even though they haven't got a clue why some of us drive them, so please be open minded, a ban would mean that my children wouldn't get to school and tht I wouldn't get to the shops and get out and about!
And before anyone asks, of course we have looked at alternatives!
Tilly

I worked as a corporte sales manager in the motor trade for about 10 years and some of these arguements were around then.

4x4's get a lot of stick because its asy to jmp on the bandwagon without realising that some of them are better on emissions than family cars like some of the Mondeo's but we couldn't possibly have a go a those could we.

As for having a go at 4x4 drivers, totally uncaled for. They pay the extra tax and they pay the extra for fuel so leave them to it. I have an MPV as I have 4 kids, so a normal family car is no good. Eeven if I had three kids, has anyone tried to fit three decent car/booster seats in? Not many can, so MPV's are neccessity. I am not a believer in Global warming being caused by man, for me its a natural cycle which has been rpoved by many scientists who study the earth and soil, but each to their own.

Broony, not sure where you get 99% of your experts from. I hope that doesn't include the over politisied IPCC! :-)

I'll get on to cars in a sec, but personally (as a BSc Environmental Studies student), I have yet to see any evidence that shows that the 3% of atmoshperic CO2 humans produce has any greater effect than background noise on global temperatures. But more importantly, I've yet to see any studies that clearly show the current warming trend is actually caused by the greenhouse effect.

Anyway, to cars. I am a rally driver and although I used to have a 4x4 Freelander out of necessity (to trailer the rally car to and from events) I have had it recycled! My rally car was a gas guzzling 2 litre Peugeot 206, which is now retired. Obviously this is not a sustainable sport or one that can carry on like this with our ever dwindling oil reserves. So, I'm ditching the fossil cars for high performance electric. In 2009 I will be working on a rally car development to trial state of the art battery and ac motor technology. What we develop through motorsport, we plan to put into a viable electric road car (unlike the Tesla!) that will leave its fossil friends for dead.

So to answer the original question, we all really love cars, the performance, the freedom etc. etc. But it's our love affair with fossil fuels we have to ditch.

In case anyone comments, I'll be charging my batteries with electricity generated from Hydro or Wind. :-)

And, if you (or some wealthy friend!) is interested in helping fund our project, I'm all ears. We already have some serious backing, but any extra goes a long way.

Cheers, Ellya

Why do so many people disengage brain when using a number? Mr Potter's article tells us that the RAC say that 20% of (presumably car)mileage is unnecessary. So what's their and his point? Delete 'mileage' and substitute 'eating' or 'walking' or 'talking on the phone' or 'shoes' and you would get a series of unexceptional statements: do we really think that, of all the shoes sold in the UK, less than 20% are unnecessary? If the RAC have found that 80% of mileage is necessary then they have shown that driving a car is a largely utilitarian exercise. Yes, of course.
And brooney asserts that 90% of journeys are less than 7 miles and for these a bike would be 'better'. Why do people make the worse choice for 90% of journeys then? Possibly because they have less time than him, or more to carry, or maybe they just use the car as a labour-saving device as we do so many other machines.
Please, people, take a good look at the next stat. before you quote it and check to see whether it really does support your argument.

The whole debate about cars is misplaced - it isn't cars, or the type of cars, but the fuel that is the issue. Bring on good performance electric or hydrogen cell cars and that whole issue goes away leaving us with the myopic anti car planning being proliferated today as the problem of the future. Whether we believe the man made climate change scenarion or not (I don't), such a change in fuel types removes the argument. And anticipating the 'all scientists disagree' climate change argument, they also disagreed with Galileo; they though a flat earth perfectly reasonable and that the world really was made in 7 days out of clay. It is the prevailing culture of the day that determine what is believed - that and the scientific grant system that pays to perpetuate it.

So, having been provided with the freedom and mobility made possible by car ownership I for one don't want to give it up. And no, car sharing isn't practical outside of the most regimented workplaces despite what councils might think.

If we are worried about congestion then we can look at successive failed government policies for this. Why is it that everyone has to be crammed in to the south east of the UK while large swathes of the post industrial north stays empty. Why is that mass immigration and the population size in general is not viewed as part of the cause. Why is it that the right people for the right jobs always live in the wrong place.

Given the above wont change any time soon there are still options that aleviate the problem. In our information society and knowledge based workforce is there really a need for everyone to be together, 'in the office' ? A genuine high speed digital infrastructure and changes to management practices (manage by results not by seeing whose in!) would enable the majority to work from home or better still from a 'teleoffice' in their locality. The teleoffice concept would remove the loss of social interaction issue.

This would remove the imperative for the daily commute, banish congestion, reduce fuel consumption, improve quality of life and reinvigorate community in towns and villages across the country. Who knows, they may even need a post office. All of this without removing cars for when they are needed.

I agree with a lot of the sentiment on this topic. I have very strong concerns about Climate Change and Global Warming. I'm considered a hypocrite because I too drive a 4x4. The reason I bought this car is because It was needed to do a Job. In this case pull my caravan, family and dog on holidays. By holidaying in this fashion, in this country I am supporting small local buisinesses. In not adding to the pollution, both in terms of noise and the emissions, of comercial airlines I feel that the car and caravan are far more enviromentally friendly. The average airbus will emit far more Co2 in its life time than my 4x4 will. The car is driven sensibly and is not my primary form of transport. For general commuting or running around I too use a Motorbike or walk. So even though my car sits unused for most of the time I still have to pay full road tax to use it. Now surely the end user is not the person who should be forced to suffer. They, after all, have bought the car for a purpose not as a fashion accessory. If the shift were to make the manufacturers produce a more Environmental efficent vehicle that could do the same job for the same price then that is what I would have bought. As it is now, because of the Tax the Government has forced on users of large cars, my 4x4 is now worthless and I am stuck with it.

The problem is and will always be the fact the the Oil companies see no benefit in advancing research into alternative fuels. Take so called Bio-fuels. To make these fuels fields have to be given over from food production. In a warming world we will soon not be able to grow enough food anyway so losing valuable growing space will not be an option. The fuels themselves although not emitting so much greenhouse gas do give off carcogenic gasses. Any one remember why we took lead out of petrol? Who cared about Global warming when the oil fields of Iraq were burning? The truth is the people with the power don't want to upset the status quo. The Country most at risk from severe weather due to a warming climate is the USA. Already the paths of Hurricanes are slowley creeping northwards toward New York. Yet the Ex president of this country, An Oil Man don't forget, said he needed more evidence before he would sign up to Kyoto! It's easy to see why change is happening too slowly.

Cars are not the problem, it is how we let them dominate our lives.

Why do we allow cars to park on the public highway, so restricting the highway intended for the cars to travel on? It is daft.

Town centres should be pedestrian priority zones. Vehicles can move, but have to give way to pedestrians.

The car needs to be put in its place.

Get a life, get a bicycle and walk give up the car. As for 4x4's they are a motoring armageddon, a dead end. As the credit crunch bites most cars become worthless, and with 4x4's having the value of a house brick, for the sake of our children's and the planets future it is time to get real ditch the car.

The problem is that there are some people who are just plain lazy.

As an example, our condominium AGM was held yesterday afternoon. It was held in a tent and whist the temperature was in the high 90's, there were some powerful fans to help keep the temperature down. One person was so lazy that he drove his car to the meeting, 100 yards away, which goes some way to explain why he must weigh at least 30 stone if not more.

Alan

i think the uk should just have one giant monorail that runs everywhere very quickly and leave the roads for ambulances, fire engines etc. I also think we should dredge and reopen our fantastic canal system for haulage to stores thus reducing the amount of trucks. this isnt because im a hardcore environmentalist, but becauseit makes more sense to me to have one system thats quick and efficient and completely eliminate car accidents.

Sadly the words 'Quick' and 'Canal' are non permitted words in the same reference.

"I'm sorry Mrs H we don't have any bread but the next barge is due in two weeks"

Jinni, there is a campaign to get the old canal in my town re-opened. Unfortunatly it would run through the town centre. Whilst I'd find it great to have a canal, I don't think town centre management or the people whose houses are now built in its path would agree.

No but you can set up a chain system on a canal so the barges leave on a structured system every so many minutes then there would be a constant flow.
It's just an idea, I dont think the government even really consider, and I wouldnt condone bulldozing houses to reopen them either! (Unless of course they are peoples 'second homes' which is just stupid.)

A lesson in 'Just in time' Logistics:

Supermarkets and their Regional distribution centres (RDC's)do not hold stock beyond a day or two's worth of supply. They simply do not have the space. Most of these huge RDC's that you see are just big cross docks, where goods come in one side from the suppliers and are sorted and go out the other to the stores.
Suppliers too do not hold stock because of the cost of the space and because of the unpredictable market. Suppliers are given a replenishment order the night of or the day after an item is sold, generated by the store's EPOS system and approved by buyers to make sure that it isn't going to order stock that may not sell if the season is changing or not enough stock if for example a heatwave is predicted. This order is sent by fax or a lot of suppliers are now part of the supermarkets Extranet system. so, If I buy a can of beans on Monday, it's re-ordered Monday night and delivered to the RDC Tuesday lunchtime and to the store by Tuesday evening.
This just wouldn't work on Canals because the barge takes days to get to the store, a string of barges doesn't make the journey any quicker. The Supermarkets would have to invest huge sums of money making storage facilities in the stores and quadruple the size of the RDC's and if you have seen the size of the newest RDC's Like Sainsburys' at Hams Hall and Waltham Point or Tesco's in West Lothian, Morrison's at Emersons Green, Burton Latimer, Wakefield or Northwich then you'll understand just how unsightly and unwanted these buildings would be.

So when oil runs out...we starve?

i am so glad just to hear that there is ONE person out there that actually takes their 4X4 off road, i would have to see it to believe it! I thought they were only supposed to drive in the center of the road! Anyway, try not having a car living in the country and with four kids, i have yet to see a bicycle made for 5. We all bang on about climate change, but the changes need to be made with industry and business'. Knock your red light off, dont make me laugh.

Another problem is our wonderful English weather and the road layout make it unideal for cycling. If I live in somewhere live Sevilla in Spain, I wouldn't even use a car there.

I also find public transport unless for my need.

There is too many cars on the road as well :(

I once met someone with a 4X4 who claimed to take it off road once a year so he therefore 'needed' it. The problem with these people is that they think everyone else should reduce their pollution - rather than themselves.

Someone else I know did try using a bicycle for a short time but reverted to using his car after he had it stolen.

My aunt used to go shopping on foot. Only a couple of miles. Then she had a heart attack and my uncle had to take her in the car.

More people should have camels.

I recently found a new hobby electric cars. Some would say these are not real cars but it is known that the subject develops and it also saves the environment. Two birds with one stone. I like to read some blogs and portals on car charging and new car technologies.